Tina Fox:
Welcome everybody. This is Tina Fox, the Creator and CEO of Tern Mentoring. It’s great to see you today. I have a really exciting guest because not only is she a dear friend, but she’s somebody I met on my entrepreneurial journey. Since then, we’ve become business partners and we share a passion for networking and connecting with others. And I wanted to bring Jen Dalton, CEO of BrandMirror, author, and dear friend on today because Jen has a lot to share in the world of branding, how to represent yourself, particularly as it pertains to networking. And that’s one of the things that I get asked most often or when people are sending me information and saying, “Hey, can you do a series on this?” Networking is typically top of order. So welcome Jen Dalton, it’s always great to see you and have you on the show.
Jen Dalton:
Thank you so much for having me. I can’t wait to talk about networking. It’s such an important skill to have.
Tina Fox:
Awesome. So we’re going to try to cover three things today. The first is why is networking important? What is it about networking? I know we met networking and that’s been a great benefit to me, but why should networking be important to other people and why should they consider it as part of their weekly lives?
Jen Dalton:
So I think networking is sometimes an intimidating word, and if we just step back for a second and define it’s really just about meeting someone or someone’s, many people or one person, where you get together, you share information and ideas and then build relationships. So we network all the time. We’re networking in high school, we’re networking in college, we’re networking in our career, hopefully. We just don’t always do it with intention because it’s just social interaction. And so I think for our career, and I didn’t figure this out until 10 years into my career, and I hate to say that, but that’s true. So I think it’s important for people to build networking skills as soon as they can. Just because you’re a college student doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have a network. And just because you’re a senior leader doesn’t mean you shouldn’t maintain your network.
So I think networks are important because they help you not just have a transactional like, “Hey, let me shake your hand and give you a business card.” To me, that’s not really networking. You said hi to someone and you introduced yourself. I think real networking when it’s adding value is when you’re building relationships. And I think back to when you and I met, I joined this particular networking group to expand my relationships. I needed more people to learn from. I needed more people to connect and hopefully develop business with, but it was all about relationships. And so that first day when you and I met, look where we are now. Eight years later, we’re close friends, we do a lot of things together. And so if I hadn’t gone to that networking event, we wouldn’t have the relationship we have today. And there are a lot of other people in that group where that’s really expanded my business, helped me develop professionally, but also personally.
Tina Fox:
And since then, we’ve both spun out of that one networking group, but we’ve managed to keep a lot of our relationships. I know you’ve gone on to create another one yourself. I’ve moved on into other areas, but we always keep those connections. And because we were part of something, I feel like anytime we could pick up the phone and call those individuals that we had seen more on a weekly basis, so that never goes away.
Jen Dalton:
No, and I think that’s really important. However, what I would say is you still want to identify who do you want to keep in your network? And even if you leave a networking group or an organization, if you’re in college, you have your classmates, you want to identify who do I want to keep staying in touch with because there’s a network you want to take with you. And just because you and I have relationships with people in that networking group, we still need to reach out and invest some time in checking in, “How are you doing? Anything you need?” So it’s what you invest into it is what you get out of it. And so I think it’s important for anyone to think about who are the people you really want to keep in your network even if you’re not in the same groups along the way.
Tina Fox:
And it’s funny you say that because I remember when I first started in that type of business networking, it was outside of my traditional vertical lane of med tech. And so in coming into this group of entrepreneurs and other business owners and had very different businesses, I wasn’t sure what are we going to get out of this with each other? I don’t know accounting. I don’t know dentistry. I don’t know branding. But there was things that we could learn from one another. I certainly have learned a ton from you. So any comments on networking in your lane versus outside of your lane when it comes to why networking is important from that regard?
Jen Dalton:
Sure. I think when I think about a network that’s strong, yes, you want to have a network for your goals and you want to have a really powerful network to help other people reach their goals. And so when I think of networks, I really try to think of a few different categories. And so the group you and I were in, the thing we had in common, which is really why you go to a networking event, you have something in common with people who are all getting together, was we were all business owners. However, what it also added was our ability to provide value to other parts of our network who might need an accountant or who might need a painter or who might need a wealth manager. And so you want to think about your network as yes, it serves you and it also really needs to serve your connections and the relationships you have and it needs to serve and align with your values too and your purpose. So networking shouldn’t be transactional. It should be very, very intentional.
Tina Fox:
All right, so if I’ve decided I believe that networking could be important because it can serve me, it can serve the people that I’m connected with because now I’m delivering value to them because I know other people. So those are all good reasons as to why networking could be important. But where do I start? If I’ve never networked, maybe I’m a student coming out of college, maybe I am somebody who’s been in business, I’ve been in a singular lane, I’ve only been networking with the people in my office, where do I start if I decide that I’m going to try this networking thing on a larger scale?
Jen Dalton:
That’s such a great question. And as I said, I won’t share what I did early in my career because I didn’t really do much networking. I think for whether you’re a student or an executive or mid-career or an entrepreneur, think about your networking buckets because we don’t want to go to the same type of networking where the same people show up to every single thing. The power of a network is when it’s diverse. And so I think of networks in four buckets. I think of I want to network with people who are like-minded like me and in the same profession because we’re learning from each other. So for me, it was joining a marketing association, it was joining a personal brand group. And so if you’re a student and you’ve just gotten this fabulous degree, whatever it’s in, accounting, marketing, finance, try to find a group that you can join that’s related to your field because you do want to be around people who are professionals in that field to learn from. They might mentor you.
So it’s really important to think about what skill am I building or getting ready to build that I can use as determining do I want to join a network or not? Where do I start? So I think your skills that you’re trying to develop. I think another one that’s important is to think about who needs to know about you? So if you’re a student, it could be, “Gosh, I want to go work at Deloitte or I want to work at Vogue.” Let’s think about which companies might you want to be in front of? Well, where are they? Do they have conferences? Do they have webinars? Are they at big events? And how do you discern, “You know what? I’m going to go to this big event for marketers, it’s in New York. It might cost a little bit of money, but it’s where all the companies I might want to work for will be.”
And for an entrepreneur or business owner, it could be, if I’m working with executives, then I want to be where executives are. I want to be where if I’m for example, a mortgage lender and I’m looking for a new role at a bank, go where the bankers are. So you really want to think about your audience and who needs to know about you because networking, ultimately, it’s about visibility and staying top of mind because if you’re out of sight, you’re out of mind. The last two buckets I think of are what matters to me socially or giving back community wise? For me, I’ve figured out that I care about women, equality and really helping change how women are viewed in the workplace, make sure we have equity, et cetera.
So one of the groups I joined, it’s called a Business Women’s Giving Circle, and it’s a group of 50 women from all different industries, which is very cool. But we have a common shared purpose, which is we care about STEM and 90% of the careers of the future will be in some STEM related field or STEAM, which I actually prefer. And so we have a annual membership, we all donate, and then every year the 50 of us review applications from nonprofits that work with girls and young women in STEM. Because the earlier you help people believe they can do science, technology, math, et cetera, engineering, then that changes their trajectory completely. And so that’s something where, as a student or as a professional, what matters to you? Is it the environment? Is it education? Is it innovation? And find a group where it’s fun hopefully because you also like it, but it also is meaningful to you from a purpose standpoint.
And I think the last bucket is the fun bucket. So it’s important to have a group of people, whether it’s a group of your favorite fraternity brothers, sorority sisters, maybe it’s a group of people you meet in your first job at a company and you’re all the new hires and you’re all in onboarding together. But find a group of people that you can have fun with and that you get together with. Maybe it’s a weekly dinner, maybe it’s we travel somewhere once a year. But that fun network tends to be your tight group of people that when something’s going on and you need help, you can get personal and ask for help.
So although it is fun, yes, it also should be a group that you have a support group because that’s what we want too, is we don’t want to go through life alone. We want to have these relationships. And so if you think about your networks in those four buckets, professionals like me, the audience where I need them to know about me, giving back, or fun, you’ll have a pretty diverse robust network. And for me, using those filters every year I go, “Is this network working for me or is it not? Am I giving to this network or have I slacked off?” And I just assess, “Do I need to change my network or do I keep going where I’m going?” Because the last thing that I think people should do is waste time going to 50 different networking events and not doing any of them very well. So that’s also why I try to limit which networks I’m in because we only have so much time.
Tina Fox:
I love how you’ve bucketed it down into the two that are maybe a little bit more obvious. Where am I, and so who’s just like me that we can learn from each other? And then of course, where do I need to show up? But the philanthropic bucket, I think is so important. We’re seeing more and more companies doing better things for the community. And so they’re more opportunities to do that than ever before. And then that fun bucket is that pressure release area and mental health being of top of mind for so many of us, having that pressure release is good. Now okay, so I’m going to tell a little story about you you’re probably not going to want to hear it, but so Jen has this innate ability to be extroverted when she needs to be extroverted, but she’s actually a very introverted person. And so I’ve always been asked how do introverted people show up in a networking environment because that doesn’t come natural to them. So you do it so well, you would be the best to answer this. So can you answer that for me?
Jen Dalton:
Sure. I love this question because introverted people are actually the best at networking. And let me explain why that is because you might be going, “Really? I don’t know.”
Tina Fox:
Oh, I believe you. I believe you. I know. I have a lot of introverted friends just like you.
Jen Dalton:
Because you really only have not only so much time, but the real driver is I only have so much energy because if you’re introverted, you have a finite amount of energy and when that is done, you’re out. You’re like, “I shouldn’t talk to any people. I don’t want to talk to people. I will not be friendly at networking events.” And so what I recommend, whether you’re extroverted, but definitely if you’re introverted, is just have a goal of I want to meet three people and as soon as I do that, I’m out. And if that’s 10 minutes into a networking event or 20 minutes or 30 minutes, great. Never feel like you have to stay at an event the entire time. Now obviously, if it’s like a sit down dinner and a speaker, it will look weird if you get up halfway through the dinner. But if you’re out just mingling and chatting and catching up, it’s okay to have a specific goal and anybody should anyways if you go to network. Who am I trying to meet? How much time am I spending here?
And if you’re out of energy, pay attention to that and then leave when you’re out of energy because nobody will want to hang around you if you’re out of energy and you’re not going to enjoy it. And so you might as well just say, “Yep, this is what I’m going to do and I’m going to leave.” The other thing I would say is if you’re introverted, or let’s say you’re going to a new networking event, I try to find someone I know because typically you learn about it from someone you know. I try to find someone who will go with me to that event. So it’s like your wing person. So you have someone to speak with and they can help introduce you. You just want to make sure you don’t get stuck hanging out with the people you know. Set a goal of, “I want to meet this many new people too.” So I think introverted, extroverted, everybody needs to be networking. Just pay attention to your energy and pay attention to what your goals are for that event.
Tina Fox:
So we have been each other’s wing person many times at different networking events and it works out brilliantly because although I probably err more on the extroverted side, I’m like you, I need my time away too. So in order to be on and to be connecting and to be really engaged, that brain needs to settle down at some point in time. So I love the having a wing person because it takes the pressure off. Now I also want the audience to notice that over your shoulder is a book called Listen. So right there is the proof that Jen is an introvert. And this is another reason why introverts are amazing at networking is because they are some of the best listeners I have ever engaged with. And when people feel heard, they feel valued. And introverts have an innate way of making people feel valued. So thank you Jen for making me feel valued in your life.
All right, so the third thing I wanted to touch base with you is now that we’ve realized why networking’s important where people can start, thank you for breaking it down in those buckets because I think that’s brilliant, how can you be successful at networking? You’ve given us some clues, but is there anything else that you would say these are things that you’ve learned, introvert, extrovert, doesn’t matter. What can you do to be successful at networking?
Jen Dalton:
I think depending on where you are in your career, you probably will have different goals for why you’re networking. I’ll give an example. There’s a big awards event, a executive networking event. So I was trying to think through, in advance, a week or two in advance, who could I invite to this? Because it’s a network where I’m very well connected and so I know a lot of people who are going to be in the room. And so my planning includes thinking about what value can I add to the people in the room? What value can I add to maybe people who aren’t in the room but would like to get a chance to be in the room?
And so as it happened, I met two people young in their career earlier in the day and I said, “Gosh, you know what? I would love for you to be my guest at this event tonight because I can introduce you to at least five people.” And they’re new in their career. And so they’re like, “Yeah, we’ll be there.’ And so it was really fun to think in advance, who can I help at this event? Who do I want to speak with? I probably don’t think enough about what do I need from the event from me because I really am thinking a lot about who can I help, who there will need to meet these young people? So do make sure you’re going in with a goal for yourself too. It’s good to be altruistic and help others and you also should think about what works for me. And so I went to this event, saw the two people, they felt excited because I was excited they were there and I took them around and introduced them to people.
And then I also connected with some new people and I went to also, I think it was right after Covid and things were opening back up. So you’re also going to reconnect with people that maybe you haven’t seen in a while. And for me, when I think about a networking event, if someone invites me to one, I want to think about can I go, is it the right use of my time? Because you don’t have to say yes just because someone asked you and how am I going to be of service? Those are things that I think as you go into an event or a conference, whatever it is, a Zoom meeting, it can even be virtual, you should always be thinking about why am I here and what value can I add?
Tina Fox:
From the minute I met you, there is one word, other than gutsy, that is attached to you and that is intentional. And what you just said is being very intentional in how it is that you’re approaching something so that it’s not just seat of your pants. You’re going to have better outcomes because of the intention that you put in there. It may not always work out that way, but at least you have some sort of a plan going in.
So I think that that’s always great because a lot of people do show up at networking events and they’re like, “Well, what’s going to happen for me?” And then they’re horribly disappointed because they didn’t have the agenda. So it’s not a bad idea to have those thoughts in place. And you are a helper, per a personality profile test that I know for you. And so it’s no doubt that in you going to networking events, you’re constantly thinking of how you can help and serve others. All right, so I want to wrap with a rapid fire. So hope you’re ready for the rapid fire. We’re talking about networking, so let’s give a top five, how about that?
Jen Dalton:
Perfect, lets go.
Tina Fox:
Top five best practices on networking, go.
Jen Dalton:
So you don’t even have to leave your desk for this first tip. If you know you’re going to an event, it could be an award show, it could be a conference where you’re going to your speaker, go on LinkedIn or it could be Instagram or another social network, I prefer LinkedIn for this, write that you’re excited to go to this conference or event, tag the conference if you’re able to, or at least the company hosting the conference, tag the speaker you want to see or maybe it’s a person who’s getting an award, tag them. Because if you do that in advance, one, nobody else is doing that for the most part, so you’re already going to stand out. And two, especially if it’s a speaker, you give them a little ping and go, “Hey, I’m excited to see you,” before the event. So that way if you’re trying to get their autograph or you just want to let them know that you think they’re great, they know in advance and maybe they’ll talk to you while you’re there.
Tina Fox:
I remember seeing you doing that one time and I was like, “Wow, that is so smart.” So now I’m going to remember because you did this in rapid fire, but I’m always a post event tagger, post event poster, and here you are saying, “No, get ahead of it.” So I’m going to get ahead of it. All right, that was number one. You got four more to go.
Jen Dalton:
I think it’s very important for networking, the more interested you are, the more interesting you will be. So when you go to an event, worry less about do I have my elevator pitch? Am I ready to talk about me? Think more about what are some questions I could ask someone to either break the ice or move the conversation forward. The worst question to ask is, so what do you do? What I would think about instead is why did you choose the industry you’re in? Once you get to know each other and ask that opening question, you could ask, who are you trying to meet while you’re here? Have you been to this event before? What do you love about this network?
So ask some questions like that. And this is where that listening is really important because you have to pay attention to is the other person engaged? Are they distracted? If they’re distracted, do you need to do something differently to re-engage them? Or maybe they’re just not in a place to have a conversation and that’s okay. Don’t take it personally. Everybody’s there with their own agenda. But the more interesting you are, the more interesting you’ll be.
Tina Fox:
Awesome. I love that one. And that does prove the point of introverts are so good at figuring out questions because you all are wanting the spotlight off of you. And the way to get the spotlight off of you is to ask engaging questions to get the spotlight on the person speaking. So bravo on that one. Okay, what’s your third tip of the day?
Jen Dalton:
People talk about elevator pitches all the time. It’s not that you shouldn’t have one, you can, but when you go to a networking event and you’ve practiced a 30 second elevator pitch or a minute elevator pitch, don’t do that. Don’t use that because you are putting the spotlight on yourself for a whole minute. So instead think of what’s the dialogue I want to have? What could I share about myself that weaves into the conversation? What could I share about people that I know there to help make a connection?
So you want to think of it like a tennis ball or a game, tennis, where there’s interaction back and forth and you may have to adjust. You’re getting new information. And so what you say and how you introduce yourself might be very different. You might talk about your job or you might talk about a nonprofit you care about or you might talk about, “Hey, I played pickleball for the first time last week and it was amazing.” So you want to be flexible and not be rigid in saying, I have to use an elevator pitch because that really doesn’t serve as well, not in networking.
Tina Fox:
So I know why you bring up pickleball because you whooped me the other week.
Jen Dalton:
We tied, we tied, we tied.
Tina Fox:
I felt like you whooped me. I was definitely sweating more than you. This tip I think is really important because it ties into, so of course you’re talking to a salesperson, which our minds are pre-wired for elevator pitches, but that being said, when we go together to networking events, one of the things that I love because we know each other so well is, you will inevitably engage individuals to help lead them into conversation with me and vice versa. And so it becomes much more conversational and nobody feels like they’re doing a self brag. Nobody feels like they’re doing an elevator pitch yet, the same outcome can happen with what content are we trying to get across. So I love the not doing an elevator pitch, but maybe having a partner to help support you. So that’s great. All right, so you’ve got two more.
Jen Dalton:
So I do think your posting real time is a good thing. So when I think about personal brand, it’s about credibility and building evidence. So if you are at an event, even if it’s at pickleball or even if it’s at a conference, it’s okay to take a picture of a speaker that was amazing and share one of their insights. It’s okay to take a selfie of everybody at lunch talking about a certain topic. If that evidence builds your personal brand and/or helps someone else build their brand, then do it. And if you’re taking a picture, obviously make sure everybody’s okay that you share it on social, but I think it’s okay to share real time because you’re letting people know that you’re being active. Telepathy is not a strategy. So if there’s information that tells your story or tells someone else’s story, definitely share it real time.
Tina Fox:
You added a very quick quip that I wanted to put an exclamation point on because it’s really important. I think that as people become more used to sharing every aspect of their life online, that there are some things that don’t need to be shared. I’m one of those people. And I just got a survey, so you’re talking about the fun networking group, so I’m getting ready to go on my annual trip with my fun networking group. And of course, because everybody is Type A in this group, we got a survey of things like, what do you want from breakfast? All the way down to how do you feel about social media posting? And the options were, “I’m great, you can post whatever,” to “Absolutely don’t post anything. I don’t want people to know my private life.” So it really is important to know what is appropriate to post and what’s not appropriate based on your brand and other people’s brand. So that was a good point that I just wanted to highlight real quick. All right, and what is your final tip, Jennifer Dalton on networking?
Jen Dalton:
I think it’s important to block time for follow up. So we’ve talked about stuff to do before, networking, stuff to do while you’re networking. It keeps going. There’s a beginning and middle and an end. And the thing you want to do next is if you have an all day conference or if you go to lunch with somebody or lunch with a group or dinner, whatever it is, a nonprofit gala, the next day, just block 15 minutes, 30 minutes on your calendar in advance for follow-up because a lot of times what we forget is, “Oh, I told so-and-so I’d connect them with so and so.” So block 30 minutes and do your follow up because most people don’t. And when you do, it makes a fantastic impression.
So I was at a event yesterday and it was an evening event, and so I’ve got time on my calendar today to follow up because of course, while I was at the meeting I made three different promises and I need to follow up on those promises because if you say you’re going to do something, then you need to follow up and do it. Otherwise people aren’t going to trust you when you say, “Oh yeah, I’m going to introduce you,” because for you, that introduction is convenient and it could be exciting because you’re connecting two people, but for one of those people, it could be a make or break deal for their career. I mean, let’s say you’re bringing someone, a student, to an event and you’re introducing them to a potential recruiter and you say, “I’m going to connect you tomorrow,” you better connect them tomorrow because it matters to both of them that that happens. And so don’t underestimate the importance of follow-up not only for your personal brand, but just for helping other people who are expecting you to do something. So make sure you block time for follow-up.
Tina Fox:
So you know I love alliteration and we do have a sales saying that the fortune is in the follow-up. So thank you for that awesome fifth reminder as to what would be tips for networking. And in that follow-up, what I’ve found is that when people are networking and they’re being paid to do so and they’re meeting with people that are potential clients, the follow-up is pretty decent in those scenarios. But when folks are out networking, and it may be a little bit more on the fringe of actually closing a deal, it’s just a connection type thing, it drops precipitously. It becomes less than 10% of people actually follow up and things.
And you do. That’s one of the things that I have always admired about you is that you are good as gold on your word, whether it has anything to do with your business or not. If you find that it could be of a benefit or support to somebody else, your follow up is extraordinary and you’ve built part of your brand on just being unbelievably reliable in your follow up. So thank you for being that person. Okay, Jen, we always love to end on a mentorship moment. So it does not have to pertain to networking. This is really something that you carry with in your life and you feel is important. You would like to pass that on to others. What would that mentorship moment for you be?
Jen Dalton:
I was very fortunate in my career that I had a sponsor and potentially, I would even elevate and say champion. And so Kevin Goldstein is a senior executive that I worked for about eight years into my career and he was instrumental in helping me be promoted from Senior Manager to Director. And where I used to work, there are always promotions that are a significant leap where you can own a profit and loss, managing a team. And so I think for each person, make sure you have someone who can speak up for you at performance management reviews, can speak up for you at promotion panels because having someone who has your back in those conversations where you’re not in the room is extremely important.
And not only was he my mentor, but he really was the person who championed and sponsored that leap for me from a career standpoint, from not quite med management to mid-management. So make sure you have someone in your career, and if you don’t, no one’s going to come to you and they might come to you and say, “Hey, can I be this for you?” But chances are you’ll need to find someone and ask someone to help you with that. So if you don’t have that, really think about who could be a great champion for you and who’s in a position to go to the max on your behalf.
Tina Fox:
Awesome. I love it. And you used your mentorship moment to highlight somebody else, so great shout out. Thank you so much. Hope that helps everybody out there. All right, so Jen, I’m going to wrap us up here because everybody’s got things to do. They need to go network. And while you’re out networking, I just want to remind you that Tern Mentoring is always looking for great mentors. Jen Dalton is a mentor here at Tern. She’s a huge supporter. So if you come and join Tern Mentoring either as a mentee or as a mentor, we’d love to have you because we’d love to make these connections and expand the conversation, give you more interpersonal. You can go to ternmentoring.com to learn more, and we’ll continue to bring you our monthly Zoom cast with amazing people just like Jen. So thank you again, Jen Dalton, CEO and author BrandMirror. Have a great day, everybody.
